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Wednesday, June 5, 2013

Circular Logic



28th April 2013 

Hay James,

There has been a bit of business stuck in my gut for a few years that I’ve meant to talk to you about. Truth is this has likely slipped from your memory.

It must have been some eight years ago shortly before Celaya shipped off to the army that we went to a strip club. I’m not sure how common an event this is for you, but it has never left my mind, because I was in a lot of pain. It happened that I was suffering from potassium deficiency, and so my gut filled with water and threatened to burst.

Well, Celaya just insisted I get a lap dance and only stopped asking when I screamed to be left alone. From what I gather you asked Mr. Celaya why he refused to listen and he told you that I was always saying ‘no’ to him. This came up a few years later when Chris Celaya pestered me to play video games when I had homework.

I recall lamenting to you that Chris would not listen to me unless I was screaming. “He pesters me until I snap” I think were my words, and you replied with “Well, you’re always saying ‘no’ to him” as if this gave him the right to treat me in this manner.

I just have to ask, James, did it ever cross your mind that this was circular logic? Honestly, I never have to say yes. That’s just not how things work, but when I got up and walked away from the situation I detected a feeling of anger among your friends.

Don’t get me wrong, it was unfair of me to have involved you in this at all. It was my fight and I should have fought it alone until it ended my friendship with Chris Celaya.

This put a bitter feeling in my gut about you for some years and I guess this is my way of letting it go. I’d like to apologize for that as I should have just explained the situation. I still would rather you keep your hands to yourself. I mean, no means no and should have no less meaning or power no matter how many times it passes my lips.

Just had to get that out,



Richard Leland Neal


Monday, June 3, 2013

Face Book talk



Apologies for the poor spelling on this but I was pressed for time and Savino was ticking me off. I hate candid things because of my inability to compos and think Well this would be a time to say anything you think.
10/8/12

·         Chris Savino
Messaging Chris now. He said that he's willing to patch things up and that you two had good times, but that he'd be a pretty useless friend right now because of where he currently lives and the program he's in.
I told him what you told me, and asked him what his "side" of it was.
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7:19pm
Who said I wanted to patch things up? I just want he to tell everyone else the truth. There is no patching this up after what he did.
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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif7:20pm
Let's not be hasty. A lot of conflict comes from misunderstanding. That said, I am trying to get what information I can about what happened.
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7:22pm
I've known him a lot longer than you have trust me on this I don't want him back in my life.
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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif7:27pm
Okay, I believe you. I don't want to try to push you into something you don't want to do. He's saying that he never intended you harm, and regrets the harm he may have caused, but that he never lied about you, he just talked about you behind your back, and that he understands why you'd be mad about that and is sorry. He also doesn't remember owing you money, but says that, due to his being pretty bad at keeping track of money, that it's possible, and that you should have mentioned it.
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I'm assuming he'd be willing to pay you back if he knew what he owed.
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7:29pm
Yeah, well, its clear that he is still uninterested in the truth. Good of you to have done this but you may inform him that he can't lie to me about things like that.
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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif7:30pm
What, specifically, is he saying that's untrue? He mentioned that a lot of what was said was very broad. Can you give me specifics?
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7:32pm
His actions were planed and malicious. As I told G he just wants to know how much I know about.
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Which actions?
Can you give me an example?
What pissed you off the most?
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7:34pm
Sorry that's as far as we go. He said he knew what this was all about so he shouldn't need to hear anything from me.
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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif7:35pm
Hm. Okay, stand by.
Are you sure he knows what this is really about? It's been years, right? Maybe he has forgotten...maybe something he said or did had a much greater effect on you than he anticipated, or maybe he didn't anticipate what he did or what he said would bother you....
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7:40pm
that will do, Mr. Savino, we are clearly getting nowhere with this
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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif7:40pm
Confirmed: he says he does not know what you are talking about.
You assume he's lying about that?
This is me asking, not himi
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7:41pm
He knows what this is all about
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I'm just not sure about that. I remember having fights with my friends about stuff I said when I was drunk years ago that I don't even remember. They held onto it for years and didn't tell me. Held it against me
When I found out I said "really? You've been holding onto that for all those years? I didn't even mean that; it was a joke! I'm sorry."
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7:42pm
He wasn't drunk
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Was he emotionally compromised at all? Was it something he said or something he did?
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7:43pm
We are taking a bout planed actions here.
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Is it something really private, which is why you can't tell me?
If so, as I said, I don't want to push you
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7:45pm
How about we play a game...its called yes and or bullshit. he can start naming things he did and I can start giving you one of those answers
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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif7:45pm
lol okay, let's try that
Was it being intimate with Gretchen? First thing he asked
Moving in with Dave?
Forcing clean standards on your home?
Bitching about cleanliness?
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7:49pm
Bullshit
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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif7:49pm
Bullshit to all of them?
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7:50pm
yes and you can tell him that if he thinks he can twist things he's mistaken.
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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif7:50pm
Okay, so none of those. I'll try again.
Is there a reason you don't e-mail him?
About the issue, I mean.
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7:56pm
so far as I can see there is nothing to talk about. He's still play his bullshit game.
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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif7:56pm
So you think he won't actually address the issue if you confront him about it?
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7:58pm
Mr. Savino, he is lying. What do you expect me to do with a pack of lies
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You guys were friends for 15 years. He's apologized for hurting you, but he can't apologize for something specific when he doesn't know what it is.
How about this: what would give you peace, other than having him come out and say what he did (or remember what he did, whichever is the truth)?
He says he's willing to make things right if he knows what it is he did wrong.
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8:00pm
we were friends longer than that and he told me he knew what he did so....what would give me peace? I would kneed him to tell the truth before I would know that.
Playing stupid is something he did often and it simple isn't going to work any more.
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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif8:01pm
When did he say he knew what this was about? He's telling me that, other than the things he mentioned, it may be that he's just a difficult person to live with, as his dad realized when he finally got fed up with Chris.
That you may have done the same thing. Maybe when he said he knew what this was about, he meant one of the things I mentioned before
It's possible, right?
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8:03pm
12th Jan 2011
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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif8:04pm
Do you have logs or something? How did you come up with that date?
This is me asking
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8:04pm
wrote a letter to his ex about it
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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif8:04pm
You wrote a letter to his ex? Or he did?
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8:06pm
I write letters to her rather often. Helps with her nerves. You should really took at the things I post on FB more often
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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif8:07pm
Which ex are we talking about here? Tara? Or Cassi?
FB feed is random, man. I don't know how they set those algorithms. I get some of your updates and not others.
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8:08pm
the one he screwed over the most
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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif8:10pm
So this is about Cassi? He says he kept most of her stuff when they broke up.
Is that what you mean by "screwed over"?
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8:12pm
This is not about Cassi and he did much more than that but if you're going to get into that you'd best talk to her about it
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I never really liked Cassi, to be perfectly honest. Other than a largely failed attempt at very drunken coitus about 10 - 12 years ago, she and I didn't really know each other.
So this isn't about Tara?
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8:14pm
No but my letters are to Cassi. I have no contact with Tara and have no idea if he did anything foul to her
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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif8:15pm
So you see why I can't talk to her. I'll need a little more from you. How did he screw her over so badly? I suspect that this is what you're pissed off about.
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8:16pm
No, I learned about that after I stopped talking to chris.
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Oh....okay, so it's NOT about Cassi?
Starting to get a little bit frustrated here, man. Can you level with me? He doesn't have to know if you don't want me to tell him, but I need at least to know what you're talking about.
I'm trying to help
I won't judge you, man
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8:18pm
Dude, you have issues. What part about he wants to find out how much I know don't you get?
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Oh.....sorry about that. I missed it.
He's prodding you for information
That's what you think
?
Why would he do that?
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8:20pm
yeah, he know what he did, man, I knew this dude for 20 years and I can tell when he's lying. I just put up with him lying to me for so long that he thinks I can't.
The last think I sad to Chris last year was "Do you really think you can lie to me after all these years?" at which point he hung up. Had he not been lying he would have been surprised.
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http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif8:23pm
Maybe he was offended at the accusation. People get emotional and childish sometimes. Hanging up the phone in response to that is kind of childish, but maybe it was just that.
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8:27pm
well, He said "I'm going to go now" before hanging up and he was clearly upset that I didn't fall for what he said but not offended.
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Is there something that you think he's trying to hide that he doesn't want anyone else to know about?
Or is there something that he knows about you that you'd rather keep hidden?
You said he's pumping you for information. To see what you know. Why? So he can keep shit hidden?
I don't understand.
Please explain.
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8:35pm
So he doesn't have to tell people the truth. He did a good number of things and I assume he thinks I don't know about most of them. The final note is that it's my word against his and he can just keep lying as lang as he wants. As I said I have no wish to have him back in my life so this is all rather pointless
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8:36pm
He obiously doesn't even want to tell you what he did
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I'm trying to find out
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8:38pm
do you know Berry?
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Berry Brown?
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8:39pm
Is that her last name? Friend of the hills
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Yes.
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8:40pm
Go ask her what Chris told her about this. Don't tell him your doing it.
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She's not online...
He's also saying he's got 4 hours of homework to do and it's midnight there
I wish I knew what the actual problem was. Then I could try to tackle it.
Sorry I wasn't able to help out here. I failed.
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8:45pm
Yeah well I didn't ask for your help did I?
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I didn't say you were at fault, man
I know you didn't ask.
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8:46pm
Nor did I, and I'm not blaming you
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I did learn a lot from this exchange, though
Thanks for letting me try
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8:51pm
Just understand that the only card I have it the truth. If I may make a side point. If he was truly so out of it on what he did why didn't he said Eric or one of the Hills to came talk to me about it? Why is it that when to told Tony that it was because of him getting my name wrong he simple didn't just apologize? All strange actions if he didn't want to anger me.
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8:52pm
In any case I have work so I need to get off
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okay, man
have a good night